Let’s drop the misleading info and terminology in “TrueOS becoming a core OS”


#1

Let’s drop the misleading info and terminology in “TrueOS becoming a core OS”

Firstly, let’s get the names and terms in order and not panic!
Will have Cool&Fresh OS :slight_smile:

What is a core OS - my OS your OS or any OS ???

CoreOS coreos.com is a project based on the core of Linux OS.
CoreOS is just the name of a project based on the core of Linux OS, like Android, Slackware, RH, SUSE, etc.

TCP/IP is a network that was named and is known as Internet. Internet data communication utilizes TCP/IP as its core network protocol with servers, services and applications which use various names: http, smtp, nntp, ntp, etc. So, you don’t want to call http Internet.

Even today many Internet users think that Facebook is Internet, just like back in the olden days, users of AOL/BBS thought that AOL was Internet, before AOL connected to TCP/IP network, because they had an email and chat on AOL/BBS - lol

TrueOS will change name to Trident, and that is it. Trident will still be driven by the core of FreeBSD OS

www.project-trident.org
github.com/project-trident

Tho, I like, prefer and will miss the TrueOS name. It was unique and original name of the OS and most search engines new where its Internet presence was at

The project-trident will focus on work related to core of FreeBSD, customized for the Trident distribution.

Trident project aims (I think) to provide new and/or updated system scripts, utilities and application such as system install, OpenRC and whatever the devs of Trident will come-up with to improved things in FreeBSD core that will work better in Trident.

Correct me, if I’m wrong.


Trident builds - so everyone can see the process
#2

All this is speculation on my part.
“A core os” I belive they’ve been saying “core os”. Minor difference but an important one.
ixSystems/FreeNAS run on FreeBSD, not sure what version or how heavily modified. The user interface is an application on top of that.
Legacy TrueOS heavily modified FreeBSD-CURRENT, built into a distribution geared towards easy install for an end user.
By separating out what makes Legacy TrueOS into it’s FreeBSD base and “everything else” and keeping in mind that FreeNAS is on top of FreeBSD too, now “TrueOS as the core OS” becomes the base of FreeNAS and Trident.
What that means to you and me is more people available to work on the core of FreeBSD, more resources to build and test.


#3

the jist of it, correct

edit:
fixed typo


#4

Jest or Jist?


#5

damn typing perfectionists :wink:


#6

Just want to point out that for desktop/graphical users what you have said is correct, but the “TrueOS” name is not going anywhere - it is still going to be used for the “main project” that Trident and others are based on.

To summarize how the name is changing:
TrueOS “Desktop” --> Project Trident
TrueOS “Server” --> TrueOS

“TrueOS” will still be pushing out new packages and install images, but the default tools will all be CLI-based like with FreeBSD. You will still be able to use the TrueOS images/packages to “build your own” desktop system if that is what you prefer as well.


#7

I’m using STABLE release. My only question is am I going to get updates or is it dead?


#8

You will get an update here in the next month or two which will migrate you to the appropriate distro package repo and let you resume regular updates.
Kris is waiting to flip the switch on that migration path until TrueOS and Project Trident both have their package repositories up and running.


#9

Scratches head…I’m still trying to parse this…

My understanding is:

  • TrueOS will drop development on everything that made PC-BSD/TrueOS special & hence forth be a minimal command line image of a modified FreeBSD maintained by a couple of iXsystems employees in their spare time. Now up to the end user to build it into something from there.

  • Everything that made PC-BSD/TrueOS special has been forked off/abandoned to Project Trident, up to volunteers to continue the work or not.

At this point in time there are zero ‘Project Trident’ images available for installation.

There is a TrueOS 18.06 image. Can anyone clarify if this is the full desktop TrueOS 18.03 + package updates or is it the new stripped to the bone command line version?

Yours in confusion,
Sigawan


#10

“To summarize how the name is changing:
TrueOS “Desktop” --> Project Trident
TrueOS “Server” --> TrueOS”

This seems like a nice way to think of it.
I’m asking myself two questions :

  1. Why could’nt this be handled internally instead of the drastic step taken?
  2. If TrueOS is now just a bare bones minimal ISO then why not just install FreeBSD & avoid the hassle of duplication of ‘not quite the same’ documentation?

As a refugee from Linux I am well & truly sick of fork mania & N.I.H syndrome.

Sorry if this sounds a bit negative…


#11

Very good question!
Will it be possible to install “Project Trident” (the desktop part) as a pkg on native FreeBSD?


#12

Your understanding answers the second question of your following post.
Reading the blog on www.trueos.org there is stated:
“TrueOS will become a downstream fork that will build on FreeBSD by integrating new software technologies like OpenRC and LibreSSL.”
If you like, you could search this forum for “OpenRC”. You’ll find several threads which give a clear indication that changing the run control of an operating system seems to be non-trivial. So TrueOS (core os) is something different than FreeBSD.

Looking at “…integrating new software technologies…” above, this is not a correct statement. Project Trident provides just the tool to serve the customer with an out of the box graphical user interface (desktop environment) in one installation step. From the blog:
“We know that some of you will still be looking for an out-of-the-box solution similar to legacy PC-BSD and TrueOS. We’re happy to announce that Project Trident will take over graphical FreeBSD development going forward.” and also (for people who like to build their own desktop environment on top of TrueOS (core os): “… For instance, if you want to add KDE, just use sudo pkg install kde and voila! You have your new shiny desktop. …”

I think reading this blog helps a little to understand the rational behind the change.
Taking a look at the build history here helps to understand why there is no Project Trident immage yet.


#13

Given that Trident rebuilds all the ports with desktop-oriented settings instead of reusing TOS packages, all is not that simple. It looks like iX has given up on desktop.
Then why all the hassle of switching to openrc? Speeding up boot time for servers is not that important compared to desktops.
Advantages of libressl over OpenSSL are questionable. They are practically on par currently.
Beyond me.


#14

Change is scarey. Nothing has been abandoned. Like beanpole said:
TrueOS Desktop will become the community driven Project Trident. Nothing is really changing but the name, except now it will be easier for the community to contribute. Same core devs plus community contributions. What’s not to like?

TrueOS Server will become TrueOS. A base system to build a cutting edge OS based on FreeBSD. FreeBSD can sometimes be slow moving. This is a double edged sword. Slow moving can mean stability but can also mean slow to adopt needed change. OpenRC is a great example here.

Why not keep all of this internal? Well imho as a community driven project, transparency is awesome. We could have very easily been kept in the dark and then suddenly an announcement about Project Trident. Personally I like the transparency.

One other thing I’d like to address for all the Linux refugees.

Linux is just the kernel. Without adding other programs to go along with the Linux kernel you can’t do much with it. The Linux kernel is developed separately from the base system. Putting the Linux kernel together with a selection of software and utilities and giving it a name makes it a “distribution”. Be it Slackware, Debian, or Arch.

In BSD land, while there is of course a kernel, the kernel is not stand alone and developed separately like the Linux kernel. The kernel is developed together with a base system which in turn makes it a complete operating system that is guaranteed to all work together.

This is a small but important distinction.

Think of TrueOS as this base or “core” operating system that can in turn be used to create TrueOS based “distributions”. TrueOS will be the solid foundation that Project Trident will use to provide us with a solid desktop experience.

Why not just use FreeBSD? FreeBSD is an awesome choice and a solid OS. Personally I’m going to use Project Trident because it will be a solid “BSD distro” with a regularly updated base via TrueOS. The fact that the community will be able to contribute is just icing.


#15

@vit I disagree. Server oriented package builds will have drastically different options. Do you need to install vlc on a server? Not in my world. X Windows? Heck no. Servers should serve. Servers should not be a desktop. Boot times for servers are extremely important: catastrophic failure and you have to pull a machine out of the closet or rebuild one. Compared to the uptime of a server a minute or so seems in the noise, but when you are trying to get your web store back online, that minute is an hour.
libressl vs OpenSSL. There is more to that argument than simply functionality. OpenSSL has a lot of code that is effectively dead (algorithms that are obsolete, shouldn’t be used) and finding and fixing bugs and exploits are harder the larger the code base. That is an advantage LibreSSL has; and it’s not a trivial one.

Another advantage folks seem to miss around a fork: pushing code back upstream. Separating the two out, TrueOS will be closer to FreeBSD so anything could get merged (HardenedBSD is a good example).

My opinion (take it for what it’s costing you) is that people are jumping the gun, making assumptions, reading things that aren’t there. Really, just wait and see. If you can’t well, I’d imagine that stock FreeBSD (release is at 11.2, 12-CURRENT seems in good shape too) would install nicely into a new BE on top of your legacy TrueOS install, so one could do that. Heck if you had separate devices for OS and user data, you could simply export your user datasets, slap a new device in, do an install of your favorite flavor of FreeBSD and zfs import your user datasets and be off and running.

Me, I’m going to wait and see.

Edit:
@miker (greetings from another Mike R :slight_smile: ) nicely put.


#16

@mer hello! Mike Rs unite lol Great points as well.

The fact that server != desktop was always something that irked me when I’d log in to a Linux server and seeing gnome/kde, Bluetooth and alsa packages installed lol

PS the group of applications and utilities that make the kernel useful is called user land. TrueOS will kinda sorta be a very robust user land for Project Trident.


#17

There seems to be a lot of confusion about the recent name changes and frankly, it 's making my brain hurt!
There will be alot of people who have heard of TrueOS as an excellent desktop OS and when they try to find it to try it out, they will find the now server OS and and think whaaat? Where the hell is that nice desktop OS I have heard about! The more determined of those people will eventually find Trident, but why make it difficult?
I think it would clear up a lot of the confusion if you changed the name of the core OS (TrueOS) to CoreBSD. It is a more descriptive name, and imho, a cooler name!
Does anyone else agree?


#18

From what I understand, Once Project Trident is ready, it will be announced on the trueos web site directing them to https://www.project-trident.org


#19

What do you think of my proposal of using the name CoreBSD?


#20

Was not in the running a few months ago :wink: