I have a few questions to do with BSD


#21

My short and zero-scored suggestion is:

  • if you want to install a desktop system on old crappy hardware, use Linux and a very light desktop environment (such as LXDE).

  • if you want security, install BSD on decent hardware.


#22

So you want to make an operating system more secure, by adding more programs to it?

You want it to run on less than 256MB of RAM

You want a secure OS which is very hard to hack. While being really fast

You want a BSD system that will work on ol crappy hardware that requires far less RAM than Windows XP

And you just want to pick the best distro for you (like from Linux?)… BSD’s have flavors. Linux has distros. And

Just to recap.
You are looking for an Operating System that is

  • Easy to use
  • Based on or derived from one of the BSD’s it doesn’t matter which one
  • It is made more secure by adding “packages” to it
  • Runs on less than 256MB of RAM
  • Is super secure and impossible to hack.
  • Is super secure while also being super fast
  • Can run on obsolete hardware
  • Requires the same (or less resources) than an obsolete OS that is End Of Life

And all this isn’t too much to ask because you just want the best “distro (like from linux)” for you?.. BSD is not a Distro of Linux FreeBSD is a flavor of BSD and TrueOS is a derivative of that flavor…

Or do you want to use TrueOS/Trident, and make it more secure by adding the OpenBSD packages, more portable by adding the NetBSD packages, and just keep adding packages from other Flavors of BSD until you have something that meets all your requirements for the best [sic]“distro” for you?


#23

I guess the miracle’s forum is somewhere else. :smiling_imp:


#24

Right next to the “Run your Windows machine for more than 15 days uptime!” forum.
:speak_no_evil::open_mouth:


#25

I think @joe232 forgot one question :wink:

Which BSD OS is most user friendly?
I could guess it’s former PC-BSD, former TrueOS desktop, coming Trident.

It that correct?


#26

I run my windows box for about a month, then restart it to install updates… Believe it or not :wink:


#27

I have been running my Windows machine for a year… Never restarted it, actually haven’t even installed updates in that year. It’s still up… Haven’t used it, it just there in case I have to do something that requires windows. Which is less and less every day.

Edit:
I tried using it right now, and it just hung. Although giving the appearance of being up it was useless. Had to unplug it, and plug it back in. It’s installing 379 updates right now.


#28

@vit hh, you must be running Windows XP on Crappy Hardware!!! :slight_smile:


#29

@Groot Hah! The lights were on but nobody was home! Windows as the ultimate security OS: “I’ll just sit here and hang so that malware can’t run. Not my fault you wanted to Facebook, but you’re the one that turned on the Ultimate Security Feature”


#30

@joe232 here’s the thing. Vendors makes all sort of promises. Especially commercial ones. It may or may not be exactly true. People who don’t know what they are talking about will also say things that may or may not be true or workable.

You stepped into a forum with people who have chosen TrueOS for most likely, different reasons, and are most definitely using it differently. Many people here are very willing to help others, but sometimes the questions are, shall we say a bit out of the ordinary, sounding a bit hypothetical without real intent. And one thing that is definitely true is that we are all different with different experiences and tolerances of confusions that we throw at each other, like any other forum.

At some point a line of questions can exceed the credulence of some.That usually occurs when the questions, like I indicated above, do not sound real, when the questions never move, actually evolving with the replies. At that point it start to look like trolling.

I for one recognize that the less one understand a subject the slower forward motion there will be, but I look for that undercut, that set of Q&A that causes a realization that moves towards a solution.

So far a number of replies and questions have been given to you which, and I’m only speaking for myself, you have not replied to at least not in a way that gives me that warm fuzzy feeling of real intent. I’m just being honest, you are welcome to prove me, and possibly some others, wrong.

Now I think that if you were to regroup, share a bit more about where you are at, what you don’t like about that and what kind of things you are hoping for, there may be some more constructive forward motion. Pretend you have not said anything, make no assumptions and start fresh.

It’s also good to realize that all operating systems have their pro’s and con’s. But one thing that I’ve found very true for decades is that open source has less lies, gives me hope that an issue will be resolved, and keeps me able to use it in spite of all the hacks with criminal intent. Are they perfect? Nope, but I’m still using it some 25 years later so something has to be right.


#31

@mer Haha, funny indeed! The ultimate security feature - FB! “-Promise, one day we will really have your best in mind, just hang in there!”

I’m not on FB, I don’t want to validate them by signing up. But friends have it and looking over their shoulders it always amazes me how something that has brought in so much money can be so unfriendly, so hard to operate in.

@joe232 Sorry not intending to steal your thread here.


#32

I don’t subscribe to facebook either. I want that on the record. However, my surprise is how much people voluntarily give over in exchange for the privilege of being on Facebook. If anyone asked me any of that. I would protest. I hate that doctors ask my children. “Have you ever seen a gun in your house?” How The F… is that relevant to his ear infection that you are going to give me ibuprofen for?.. People ask me for a picture of my children, and I would question their motives. Police ask me about my whereabouts, and the first thing out of my mouth would be… What is this about?.. Yet on Facebook people will give up their names, address, social security numbers, the name of pets, how many guns they own, how much they hate guns, where they were hour by hour, what they ate meal by meal… If I were to go back to the late 80’s and tell people that Orwell’s 1984 is a reality in 2018 except that we are not forced by big brother to give over our data we do it voluntarily and with far more detail than “The party” in 1984 would require.

They would laugh at me, and tell me that nobody would ever stand for that. They’d probably tell me “We’ve started wars for less than that my boy.”
It would be very hard to convince them about how 2018 really is.


#33

As mentioned before I came here to find out what is the right product to use, not for the intent to troll people. I am just looking for something that is right (which I already have now).


#34

@joe232, just to give you another perspective/opinion. As just about everyone here has told you, it depends on your use case. I have run linux for almost 25 years. I lost a lot of interest in it because of systemd and it’s mission creep taking over and changing the very unix-like face of linux in to something much more windows-like.

I swapped out my linux file server for a home-built a FreeNAS box and started running PC-BSD on my desktop back in 2014. I switched out my linux/iptables firewall and bought a box for pfsense. I am slowly trying to replace my linux containers with BSD jails.

I have BSD running on everything from a 12-core Intel i7-6850k with 16GB of RAM and an nVidia GeForce GT780TI down to an AMD G-T56N with 4GB of RAM, and a Pentium G3220 with 8GB of RAM. The question comes down to what you are going to use it for. The G-T56N is in my firewall, which works fine supporting a 300Mb/s downlink. The G3220 is in my NAS, and does just fine managing ZFS and that box can saturate a 1GB link. Oh, and for the record, prior to this hardware, I was running TrueOS on an AMD Phenom X4 840 with 16GB of RAM. That includes all of the ZFS bells and whistles out of the box. So to sum up, like Linux, you can get any kind of experience out of BSD. If you want to throw more hardware at it, you will get a faster machine.


#35

Wow never knew that. Plus I heard that there is this cripto-speck which is some weak encryption tool which was encouraged by the NSA to be put into the kernel.


#36

I heard an interview with Poettering in which he said that systemd wanted to “own everything between the kernel and the application layer.”

The Unix ethos is to have a bunch of tools that do one thing very well, that can be strung together…Like

cat file | grep foo | sed -e 's/foo/bar/g' | sort | uniq

Five apps that are good at a couple of things each, yet can be combined into a powerful command line.

Instead, poettering decides something (like su) is “a broken concept” and helpfully (sic) rewrites it and absorbs it into systemd.

Not trying to turn it into a rant, just putting it out there…


#37

Much truth in what @VulcanRidr has said. I’ve been running a non-windows for my home desktop for a heck of a long time. I remember the Linux a.out to ELF transition, the time of “if you want a CDROM you need a specific version of a specific Soundblaster card with a specific revision of firmware”. Early Redhat distributions, Slackware and others.
FreeBSD since at least version 3.3.
So I’ve been active user on both long enough to see them both mature.
The Install process now is amazing compared to long ago. Heck it’s way cleaner than the last time I installed Windows 7 (install took a few reboots, then wait 24 hours for all the updates to download and apply). Ubuntu, less than an hour up and running.

FreeBSD/TrueOS is what I’ve settled on (going on over 20yrs continuous home use), because it just feels right. Stays true (mostly) to the “do one thing, do it right, use stdin and stdout” as pointed out.
The other BSDs are also good; Dragonfly is a very good choice (but no ZFS) for a lot of typical use (but has good network performance). OpenBSD is a very good one for security minded (firewalls it’s where PF started), you may give up a little on performance on the latest hardware, you may have to work a little harder to get a pretty desktop, but it works fine for that if you put the little bit of effort in.

systemd. My mother said “don’t say anything if you don’t have anything nice to say” so I’m not saying anything.


#38

From what I have heard DragonFly has Hammer 2 which follows similar concepts to ZFS plus it uses less RAM.


#39

Correct. Dragonfly has HAMMER2, different design goals than ZFS. ZFS has more mileage on it; originally a Solaris filesystem, became OpenZFS, then Oracle got involved. FreeBSD and “ZFS on Linux” are technically OpenZFS which may be slightly different than Oracle “Real ZFS” but since Oracle took it proprietary, one can’t tell. Illumos and FreeBSD I think are considered the “reference” implementations.

HAMMER/HAMMER2 has slightly different design goals, but so far it looks good (I don’t have a system using it anymore, but follow the commits and discussion on it) but if I remember correctly, it wasn’t for small disks, so running it on a 500MB drive is probably out and it is going to want to more than 256MB ram.
I believe that Matt Dillon (primary force at Dragonfly) runs it as his daily desktop, I’m guessing the build machines and other infrastructure are also using it. Complete builds of the ports tree along with buildworld/buildkernel are fantastic ways to stress filesystems, especially on multicore heavily SMP systems.

So again, all depends on what you want to do and how much effort. Newer machines, daily desktop I’d go with TrueOS or Dragonfly. Older, slightly less performing, OpenBSD is always worth playing with, simply to get used to one of the best firewall systems around (PF).


#40

I have already made my mind up and I am going to try out DragonFlyBSD as I do love its good speed. I have also heard that DragonFly does implement some of OpenBSD’s security such as OpenSSH. And according to this other person and I quote Dragonfly also has a version of OpenBSD’s pf firewall, though it has been modified to work in the environment of Dragonfly’s SMP and message passing kernel. which makes this OS even more attractive for me.

Why would you suggest older machines use OpenBSD rather than DragonFly or FreeBSD as I know that performance is slower on OpenBSD compared to DragonFly? Is it cause OpenBSD offers 32-bit version unlike these two other distros?